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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LagPenguin
Our chassis dynos have a shit load of environmental corrections constantly measuring baro pressure, humidity, and I forget what else. Shit gets humid in that dyno cell, swamp cooled.
Some places will give you SAE corrected numbers, some won't.
Old 08-30-2004, 08:06 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy
Why the driveshaft? You're stopping in the middle of the drivetrain. There is power loss through the torque converter, the transmission, the diff, the wheels, etc. Where are you getting the driveshaft from when there are other factors before and after it?


We've already gone over this. It is the engine power numbers after the driveline loss. The engine is the only thing producing any kind of work.

And here we go again: if the stated numbers by any manufacturer are accurate, then the torque showing at the wheels should be higher, becasue it is the wheels ultimately doing the work. If it is as you assert, that the dyno is showing driveline losses, then you're also saying that the numbers are at the flywheel, meaning me and a few thousand other owners havea few lawsuits on our hands.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:11 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Why_Ask_Why
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy
Why the driveshaft? You're stopping in the middle of the drivetrain. There is power loss through the torque converter, the transmission, the diff, the wheels, etc. Where are you getting the driveshaft from when there are other factors before and after it?


We've already gone over this. It is the engine power numbers after the driveline loss. The engine is the only thing producing any kind of work.

continuing on that line of thought, you get crank numbers from the mfgr, not driveshaft numbers...amd those are obviously correct or they get busted as has been well publicized
Old 08-30-2004, 08:12 PM Why_Ask_Why is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex Arcana
And here we go again: if the stated numbers by any manufacturer are accurate, then the torque showing at the wheels should be higher, becasue it is the wheels ultimately doing the work. If it is as you assert, that the dyno is showing driveline losses, then you're also saying that the numbers are at the flywheel, meaning me and a few thousand other owners havea few lawsuits on our hands.
What the FUCK are you talking about? Manufacturers almost always report their numbers at the flywheel....the only instance I've ever heard of a manufacturer doing otherwise is GM with the F-body.

The wheels aren't doing any work at all. They're just transferring power, nothing more.
Old 08-30-2004, 08:18 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy
That's what we do. We see the manufacturer advertise "250hp/250tq" but on a dyno we see "234hp/241tq". That's how we calculate the driveline loss.

You keep saying "we, we, we", but last I checked, you're a keyboard jockey.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:21 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy
What the FUCK are you talking about? Manufacturers almost always report their numbers at the flywheel....the only instance I've ever heard of a manufacturer doing otherwise is GM with the F-body.

The wheels aren't doing any work at all. They're just transferring power, nothing more.

cripes.. you're forgetting your basic physics, Captain Keyboard: the sourse of the power is the engine; but the ACTUAL WORK is done where the forces are applied: AT THE WHEELS.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:22 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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LagPenguin
 
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And on a chassis dyno your wheels and tires are the biggest loss of power, why the numbers aren't as pleasing as flywheel, hub or manufacturers rated hp. Major reason why one dyno won't tell you the same thing as another. Really though dynos are great for tuning but throw down the real numbers at the track of your choosing.
Old 08-30-2004, 08:27 PM LagPenguin is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex Arcana
You keep saying "we, we, we", but last I checked, you're a keyboard jockey.
Because I've never worked on an engine or owned and modded a performance car in my life.
Old 08-30-2004, 08:28 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex Arcana
cripes.. you're forgetting your basic physics, Captain Keyboard: the sourse of the power is the engine; but the ACTUAL WORK is done where the forces are applied: AT THE WHEELS.
Ok, that I understand. My point is that no matter where it's measured we're always measuring the engine's output. It's the only thing in the whole mess that's actually outputting any power.

And you blew by my other point. Manufacturers always rate at the flywheel. It's extremely rare for one to rate at the wheels because then their numbers look lower.
Old 08-30-2004, 08:30 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why_ask_why
continuing on that line of thought, you get crank numbers from the mfgr, not driveshaft numbers...amd those are obviously correct or they get busted as has been well publicized

Exactly my point: Ford already got nailed to the wall for this, back in 1999, forced them to cease production on all Cobras for two years, and to recall every '99 Cobra built.

Ford's policy is simply, "equal to or great than stated power and torque". Now, if I accept things as I have been, from the dyno day where I got MY numbers, I'm a happy camper, becasue when Ford's official driveline losses are factored back in, my motor is putting out some seriously good numbers. But, if as FlyKeyboard have been saying, the dyno is spitting out crank numbers, then I've got a lawsuit.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:34 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy
Because I've never worked on an engine or owned and modded a performance car in my life.

By saying "we", you're implying that you either work for, with, or use to work for or with a dyno owner or manufacturer, granting you expertise you do'nt actually have. Yer damned smart about cars, one of the few here I actually respect, so do'nt go blowing that with ambiguities or inaccuracies.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:36 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex Arcana
By saying "we", you're implying that you either work for, with, or use to work for or with a dyno owner or manufacturer, granting you expertise you do'nt actually have. Yer damned smart about cars, one of the few here I actually respect, so do'nt go blowing that with ambiguities or inaccuracies.
No, I say "we" in reference to all automotive enthusiasts who take the time to dyno their cars so they'll know how much power they're actually getting out of the car with the driveline loss taken into account.

guess I shoulda made that clear
Old 08-30-2004, 08:42 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyNavy
Ok, that I understand. My point is that no matter where it's measured we're always measuring the engine's output. It's the only thing in the whole mess that's actually outputting any power.

And you blew by my other point. Manufacturers always rate at the flywheel. It's extremely rare for one to rate at the wheels because then their numbers look lower.

Well, you'll have seen my other post on the '99 Cobras by now, so you know I know better.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:45 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex Arcana
Well, you'll have seen my other post on the '99 Cobras by now, so you know I know better.
Those are pretty underrated as well, right? I drove my buddy's Cobra when I lived in Florida...put a nice grin on my face

Ford may have had their own reasons to underrate the Cobras and for all I know they rated them at the rear wheels instead. Just like it's rumored that GM did with the 4th gen F-bodies so they wouldn't look as powerful as the Vette. But typically when a car company releases power figures they're advertising them at the flywheel so the numbers look bigger.

Do you concur, Dr Tex?
Old 08-30-2004, 08:50 PM SemperFly is offline  
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BlazerLT
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Can we get back on topic

I could care less about your fucking torque talk.

Did the thread starter come in here yet to explain the cracked rotor?
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:59 PM BlazerLT is offline  
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