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Tex Arcana
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Originally Posted by Tuanies View Post
A link to backup your claims would be nice too.

Most of what I claim I've read in various publications; yet, when I try to find them online, I can never make Google work for me.

yes, I am a Google
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:00 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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steal
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Originally Posted by Tuanies View Post
Um, GM is in a better financial position than Ford is. GM was in talks to take over Chrysler and in talks to work with Renault. It's nothing new to see two companies attempt to work together for their benefits. I mean Toyota was partnered with GM back in the '90's, are you saying Toyota couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag and sought partnership with GM?

if you're talking about nummi it was the other way around
Old 03-13-2007, 12:06 PM steal is offline  
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Originally Posted by Tex Arcana View Post
I disagree, because GM stock is still not rated all that highly. Yes, Ford is in trouble (esp. since they had to mortgage a shitload of their real estate just to cover bills--thanks, Bill Ford ); but Gm isn't all that much better off. Remember it's GMAC that makes the real money for them; they STILL don't care about making cars, despite the blatherings of Bob Lutz. And, yes, I know supposedly GMAC split off, but that's just accounting shadow games, the suits are fooling everyone into thinking that GM is better off, when in fact theyr'e struggling just as hard as Ford, if not harder--and have been having similar problems to Ford's now, but for much longer.

Money pit, anyone? *I* sure as hell wouldn't invest a dime into eitehr one of them right now.

As for the Toyota/GM "partnership": for one, it was limited; for another, Toyota made out better than GM, because all they did was sell them rebadged Corollas and Tercels, with some body panel alterations; Toyota made a bundle on that deal, while GM did okay 'cept when the cars had problems, and the mullets in the service department kept trying to replace the pussrods.

GM stock rating = 4 out of 10
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...symbol=us%3aGM

Ford = 3 out of 10
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...?Symbol=US%3AF

Toyota rebadged Corolla's and Vibe's for GM. GM rebadged Cavalier's for Toyota...Toyota got jewed. GM's I4's haven't had push-rods since the Iron Duke of the late-80's/early 90's.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:09 PM Tuanies is offline  
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miasman1
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Wow, totally fake that... Chevrolet trucks are everywhere; we've sold them in iraq, England, Germany, Malta... hell, I even saw them in china. Dude, I've been to every continent ~except~ antarctica and S. America, nad I've seen chevrolet and Ford trucks (chevy far more popular) everywhere except hong-kong.
But in those cases, either A) a member of the US military brought one over to drive or they were in US armed forces drag, B) some one imported one as personal use, or C) the local dealers had them for sale, I know when I was in Oz 10 years ago, there were a few F150s/F250s and Econoline vans on the roads in RHD form, and Ford Australia even sells the RHD F250 which is made in Brazil along side the Falcon Ute.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:12 PM miasman1 is offline  
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Originally Posted by Tex Arcana View Post
I disagree, because GM stock is still not rated all that highly. Yes, Ford is in trouble (esp. since they had to mortgage a shitload of their real estate just to cover bills--thanks, Bill Ford ); but Gm isn't all that much better off. Remember it's GMAC that makes the real money for them; they STILL don't care about making cars, despite the blatherings of Bob Lutz. And, yes, I know supposedly GMAC split off, but that's just accounting shadow games, the suits are fooling everyone into thinking that GM is better off, when in fact theyr'e struggling just as hard as Ford, if not harder--and have been having similar problems to Ford's now, but for much longer.
snip..

GM is a MUCH better buy than ford right now. Its been at its lowest point already, and it is now rating a buy or hold by most analysts because it is doing much better.
GM is improving cashflow, while ford is hemorrhaging cash faster than any other automaker currently. Ford is in much mroe trouble than GM is. While GM isnt out of the water yet, the majority of thier problems were announced as large one time losses already and from a strickly financial standpoint, GM is in better shape than ford right now.

GM's got much improved products coming MUCH sooner than ford does (the RWD holden developed architecture, the new midsize sedans are already ON a great platform, and the silverado is much better now than the F150), and they're generating some positive buzz. The 500/taurus is NOT a hit, neither is the freestyle/taurus X. These are stopgap measures. Ford does not have one serious upcoming update to these cars anytime soon.
Where is the update to the Crown Vic?
Where is the next small car? (the focus is on its ORIGINAL platform - its been much surpassed here)
Where is the next F150?
Seriously, the new ford superduties are nice trucks, but I cant see anything on the near horizon that will save fords bacon. The Fusion is a decent car, but it NEEDS the 3.5L to go toe-to-toe with the aura, camry et al. Ford has great cars, but honestly, they're not offered in north america.

I think ford will pickup, because they've finally gotten rid of the retards and hired a half decent executive.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:15 PM Stajerker is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuanies View Post
GM stock rating = 4 out of 10
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...symbol=us%3aGM

Ford = 3 out of 10
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...?Symbol=US%3AF

Toyota rebadged Corolla's and Vibe's for GM. GM rebadged Cavalier's for Toyota...Toyota got jewed. GM's I4's haven't had push-rods since the Iron Duke of the late-80's/early 90's.

Cavaliers for Toyota??? Why in the HELL would they do that, when they already HAD a superior car in that class (Corolla/Camry)??

And you missed my point about the Gm techs: back then, they couldn't fix problematic Toyota-based (or the Suzuki- or Isuzu- based ones, either) cars, because they just didn't care; it was well-known that, if you wanted any of those cars fixed right, you took them to the Jap dealers.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:16 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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But in those cases, either A) a member of the US military brought one over to drive or they were in US armed forces drag, B) some one imported one as personal use, or C) the local dealers had them for sale, I know when I was in Oz 10 years ago, there were a few F150s/F250s and Econoline vans on the roads in RHD form, and Ford Australia even sells the RHD F250 which is made in Brazil along side the Falcon Ute.

for most of them, a wasn't true... I was exploring the country side, not our bases.
b, maybe... who knows. either way, it was there, and there were a LOT of them there (especially in china)..
C. Exactly...
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:17 PM lopoetve is offline  
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miasman1
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Originally Posted by Tex Arcana View Post
Cavaliers for Toyota??? Why in the HELL would they do that, when they already HAD a superior car in that class (Corolla/Camry)??

And you missed my point about the Gm techs: back then, they couldn't fix problematic Toyota-based (or the Suzuki- or Isuzu- based ones, either) cars, because they just didn't care; it was well-known that, if you wanted any of those cars fixed right, you took them to the Jap dealers.
Suzukis and Isuzus are problematic, period. And I think why Toyota exported the Cavalier to Japan was an reciprocal agreement for GM rebadging the NUMMI Corollas as Novas. And GM did rebadge some Suzuki or Isuzu model as a Chevy Spectrum
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:21 PM miasman1 is offline  
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miasman1
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Originally Posted by lopoetve View Post
for most of them, a wasn't true... I was exploring the country side, not our bases.
b, maybe... who knows. either way, it was there, and there were a LOT of them there (especially in china)..
C. Exactly...

Gray market FTW, how do you think the Orange County and Hollywood elites were able to get their Euro-spec Mercedes and BMWs on to US shores in the 1980s?
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:22 PM miasman1 is offline  
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Tex Arcana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stajerker View Post
GM is a MUCH better buy than ford right now. Its been at its lowest point already, and it is now rating a buy or hold by most analysts because it is doing much better.
GM is improving cashflow, while ford is hemorrhaging cash faster than any other automaker currently. Ford is in much mroe trouble than GM is. While GM isnt out of the water yet, the majority of thier problems were announced as large one time losses already and from a strickly financial standpoint, GM is in better shape than ford right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuanies View Post

yeah, right, GM is in MUCh better position (thanks tuanies).

Quote:
GM's got much improved products coming MUCH sooner than ford does (the RWD holden developed architecture, the new midsize sedans are already ON a great platform, and the silverado is much better now than the F150), and they're generating some positive buzz. The 500/taurus is NOT a hit, neither is the freestyle/taurus X. These are stopgap measures. Ford does not have one serious upcoming update to these cars anytime soon.
Where is the update to the Crown Vic?
Where is the next small car? (the focus is on its ORIGINAL platform - its been much surpassed here)
Where is the next F150?
Seriously, the new ford superduties are nice trucks, but I cant see anything on the near horizon that will save fords bacon. The Fusion is a decent car, but it NEEDS the 3.5L to go toe-to-toe with the aura, camry et al. Ford has great cars, but honestly, they're not offered in north america.

I think ford will pickup, because they've finally gotten rid of the retards and hired a half decent executive.
GM product still remains to be seen, the only things they have going well are the trucks and the corvette; everything else is a Limpala, and poorly-done ones at that. Now, if the G8 comes over, in the EXACT form that it was shown in the car shows, it will be a HUGE hit and a massive shot in the arm for them. They *should* have done the Goat RIGHT with retro bodywork, and should have the Camero out there NOW; but they fucked up yet again, and are still producing crap.

Ford's fucked up: there's no denying that. The Focus replacement is selling hand-over-fist over in Europe, and it SHOULD be here; the Fusion is a hit, and the Mercury/Lincoln versions are suffering from too-little differentiation and piss-poor badging/advertising (yes, it shouod still be called a Zephyr, and have the push behind it to get it into the public eye) What Ford needs to win is similar to what GM needs: a refocusing on PRODUCT, and making product that looks good, performs decently, and has a design *pop* that makes people stop in their tracks and go "wow" (like the Mustang does, or the G8 could).
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Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call destiny.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:28 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Tex Arcana
I am a mean disrespectful person hiding anonymously and need an attitude adjustment.
 
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Originally Posted by miasman1 View Post
Suzukis and Isuzus are problematic, period. And I think why Toyota exported the Cavalier to Japan was an reciprocal agreement for GM rebadging the NUMMI Corollas as Novas. And GM did rebadge some Suzuki or Isuzu model as a Chevy Spectrum

oh, yeah, that: and not many cavs sold at all, but then again pretty much anything American that went over tehre to be sold new hardly sold at all, mainly because of the anti-non-Jap bias they have over there (you thought mulletheadds were racist?? Try the Japs).
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People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.--V


Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call destiny.
--John Hobbs


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Old 03-13-2007, 12:31 PM Tex Arcana is offline  
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Tuanies
 
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Originally Posted by Tex Arcana View Post
Cavaliers for Toyota??? Why in the HELL would they do that, when they already HAD a superior car in that class (Corolla/Camry)??

And you missed my point about the Gm techs: back then, they couldn't fix problematic Toyota-based (or the Suzuki- or Isuzu- based ones, either) cars, because they just didn't care; it was well-known that, if you wanted any of those cars fixed right, you took them to the Jap dealers.

JDM yo


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Old 03-13-2007, 12:32 PM Tuanies is offline  
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miasman1
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yeah, right, GM is in MUCh better position (thanks tuanies).



GM product still remains to be seen, the only things they have going well are the trucks and the corvette; everything else is a Limpala, and poorly-done ones at that. Now, if the G8 comes over, in the EXACT form that it was shown in the car shows, it will be a HUGE hit and a massive shot in the arm for them. They *should* have done the Goat RIGHT with retro bodywork, and should have the Camero out there NOW; but they fucked up yet again, and are still producing crap.

Ford's fucked up: there's no denying that. The Focus replacement is selling hand-over-fist over in Europe, and it SHOULD be here; the Fusion is a hit, and the Mercury/Lincoln versions are suffering from too-little differentiation and piss-poor badging/advertising (yes, it shouod still be called a Zephyr, and have the push behind it to get it into the public eye) What Ford needs to win is similar to what GM needs: a refocusing on PRODUCT, and making product that looks good, performs decently, and has a design *pop* that makes people stop in their tracks and go "wow" (like the Mustang does, or the G8 could).
the 500 was a flop compared to the Taurus, ironic that Ford is now calling the 500 a Taurus. Ford needs a better PR team and refocus on product. I have more respect for the Blue Oval than I do for the General.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:33 PM miasman1 is offline  
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Tuanies
 
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Originally Posted by Tex Arcana View Post
yeah, right, GM is in MUCh better position (thanks tuanies).



GM product still remains to be seen, the only things they have going well are the trucks and the corvette; everything else is a Limpala, and poorly-done ones at that. Now, if the G8 comes over, in the EXACT form that it was shown in the car shows, it will be a HUGE hit and a massive shot in the arm for them. They *should* have done the Goat RIGHT with retro bodywork, and should have the Camero out there NOW; but they fucked up yet again, and are still producing crap.

Ford's fucked up: there's no denying that. The Focus replacement is selling hand-over-fist over in Europe, and it SHOULD be here; the Fusion is a hit, and the Mercury/Lincoln versions are suffering from too-little differentiation and piss-poor badging/advertising (yes, it shouod still be called a Zephyr, and have the push behind it to get it into the public eye) What Ford needs to win is similar to what GM needs: a refocusing on PRODUCT, and making product that looks good, performs decently, and has a design *pop* that makes people stop in their tracks and go "wow" (like the Mustang does, or the G8 could).

Did you forget the North American Car of the Year -- the Saturn Aura. What about the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. There's also the Lambda Triplets - Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Saturn Outlook. The new GMT-900's have been getting positive press too.

And the upcoming Saturn Astra, next Chevy Malibu, Pontiac G8 are arriving next year...

Ford has...well an ugly-ass Focus redesign and renamed Five-hundred and Freestyle.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:35 PM Tuanies is offline  
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miasman1
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oh, yeah, that: and not many cavs sold at all, but then again pretty much anything American that went over tehre to be sold new hardly sold at all, mainly because of the anti-non-Jap bias they have over there (you thought mulletheadds were racist?? Try the Japs).

I recall reading a article in National Geographic years ago and it went over this topic. The Japanese accused Ford and GM for building shit and Washington said Japan is being too protectionist.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:36 PM miasman1 is offline  
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