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FloppieTheBanjoClown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intuitiv View Post
How about if a mentally disturbed person can't get access to a firearm in the first place?

Great in theory, impossible in practice.
Old 07-30-2008, 07:02 PM FloppieTheBanjoClown is offline  
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
The slim chance that a well-trained CCW holder would somehow miss who they're shooting it is more than a fair tradeoff for actually giving defenseless people the right to defend themselves with force. To deny them that right is to sentence them to death.

No fair! I want to live in fairy land where everyone with a CCW license is actually a well-trained and responsible firearm user, too!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
With the success story of the church volunteer security guard that shot and killed a crazy who tried to shoot up a church in Colorado Springs last year? Yes, I think they just might.

Unitarian Universalists are a liberal bunch (generalizing). I know a few, and most of them are more in favor of banning guns than carrying them.
Old 07-30-2008, 07:07 PM FloppieTheBanjoClown is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
i remember after the mall shooting here all the people that were like 'oh if i had been there with my gun that fucker would have been dead'

in reality though, there were several people in the mall that had a gun on them...and they all ran just like everyone else

That's just it. Even rookie soldiers might be somewhat hesitent at their first taste of combat. When it's the real thing and you're forced to take someone's life it's not always that easy. This isn't Hollywood, it's real life.

In any case, I think suggesting that people need to have guns in church to "defend themselves" because of one incident is just silly. If you're walking the streets of Compton alone at night with a red bandana then yes, you likely need a gun to defend yourself. Do you really need one in church? Probably not, and if you think you need it that badly then I think you're suffering from paranoia I'm not qualified to help you with.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:07 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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"He's just a really, really nice guy," Coker told the AP.

lol. Sure he hated queers, liberals, and everyone who didn't agree with his insane conservative viewpoint, and sure he shot up a fucking church, but he was quiet so he must have been a nice guy!

The argument that more guns are the answer to these sort of situation is ridiculous. I mean people who say that are aware that there are plenty of societys that get by fine having much stricter gun control laws than the US right?
Old 07-30-2008, 07:09 PM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
I've been walking around without a gun with me at all times for 24 years and have never had a problem. Is the US that much worse than Canada that you feel the paranoid need to constantly have a gun "for protection" even in church?

I've lived in supposedly-gun-happy Texas for 30 years without ever owning a gun. I know with some certainty that the Bad People are not actually out to shoot me.

These nuts who think everyone should carry concealed have no grip on reality. The reason guns are so effective is that once one is pointed at you, you don't dare give the person behind any reason to use it. Which means that in most situations where someone is committing a crime against you using a gun, by the time you know the gun is there you can't draw your own.

This isn't pistols at high noon, folks.
Old 07-30-2008, 07:12 PM FloppieTheBanjoClown is offline  
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
 
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The argument that more guns are the answer to these sort of situation is ridiculous. I mean people who say that are aware that there are plenty of societys that get by fine having much stricter gun control laws than the US right?

More guns would not have prevented the crime. Crazy people don't care about the danger to themselves. More guns might have prevented him from shooting quite as many people. More guns might also have resulted in more people killed or injured.
Old 07-30-2008, 07:15 PM FloppieTheBanjoClown is offline  
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CommiePunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloppieTheBanjoClown View Post
I've lived in supposedly-gun-happy Texas for 30 years without ever owning a gun. I know with some certainty that the Bad People are not actually out to shoot me.

These nuts who think everyone should carry concealed have no grip on reality. The reason guns are so effective is that once one is pointed at you, you don't dare give the person behind any reason to use it. Which means that in most situations where someone is committing a crime against you using a gun, by the time you know the gun is there you can't draw your own.

This isn't pistols at high noon, folks.


Your belief that "by the time you see a gun, you will not draw your own" is false. Besides the fact that 3/4 the work of concealed carry is having a hightened sense of awareness of your surroundings, I believe that if someone pulls a gun on me to rob me, someone i'm with, the clerk of a convenience store i'm at,etc... i think they are going to kill someone. So i will of course draw my gun and do my best to kill them. I don't think everyone should try this (based on your training, etc) or is mentally prepared to. Hell, I think that nobody should get a concealed weapons license if you can't say "given the right circumstances, i would be okay with killing someone".
Old 07-30-2008, 07:33 PM CommiePunk is offline  
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#37  

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I don't understand all the CCW hate. Like if somehow we weren't allowed to carry guns, people would just stop carrying them If someone has gone through the trouble to legally obtain their own firearm permit and carry their licensed firearm I have no problem with them having it. Criminals aren't going to go "well shit, this handgun is illegal, guess I'll leave it at home while I'm out mugging people."
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:05 PM Rizen is offline  
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möbiustrip
 
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Originally Posted by CommiePunk View Post
however, recent events at churches have shown that packing in church is necessary.


Like Lorena Bobbit has shown packing while getting a blowjob is necessary. Personally, I won't put my dick in anything without a round chambered and a spare magazine in arm's reach.

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There is nothing wrong with legally concealed carrying in church.
His quip went over your head.

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A firearm is a tool.
A wrench is a tool, for turning nuts. A shovel is a tool, for digging holes.

A firearm is a weapon, the definition of which is "tool, for killing." If you sat down to design the most efficient one you could think of, you would stand up with a blueprint for a firearm.

Quote:
We have already been shown that "gun free zones" are more like "unarmed victim zones".
Probably the only reason I still hop in on gun control debates is because PEOPLE KEEP REPEATING THIS HORSESHIT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I SHOW THEM THE FBI CRIME DATA THAT PROVES IT WRONG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Greg View Post
The slim chance that a well-trained CCW holder would somehow miss who they're shooting it is more than a fair tradeoff for actually giving defenseless people the right to defend themselves with force. To deny them that right is to sentence them to death.
Fair to whom? Say what you mean: the right to carry is inviolate, meaning no one in any community can ever assume he is safe from being shot. You were saying something about death sentences?

As for the "well-trained CCW holder,"
Q: In a perfect NRA world where no one can override CCW, where is accountability?
A: With the permit issuer, aka, the government.

Now you trust the goverment to do things right?

Who gave you the idea an individual right to property capable of launching a slug hundreds of feet per second, many times a second, accurately and discreetly, was absolute?

Why do you think your lobby will be satisfied with this "civil right" and stop short of pressing for affirmative action, as every other with its nature has done?

There's nothing wrong with CCW, but it's perfectly reasonable for both public and private institutions to ban firearms on their property.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:51 PM möbiustrip is offline  
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#39  

Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizen View Post
I don't understand all the CCW hate. Like if somehow we weren't allowed to carry guns, people would just stop carrying them If someone has gone through the trouble to legally obtain their own firearm permit and carry their licensed firearm I have no problem with them having it. Criminals aren't going to go "well shit, this handgun is illegal, guess I'll leave it at home while I'm out mugging people."

I don't have a problem with CCW in general, it's this stupid paranoid idea a lot of people on this forum have that they need it everywhere they go to "defend themselves", even in places where people probably shouldn't be carrying guns in the first place like a church or at school.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:08 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post


Like Lorena Bobbit has shown packing while getting a blowjob is necessary. Personally, I won't put my dick in anything without a round chambered and a spare magazine in arm's reach.

Well that just makes sense man, anytime your woman is sucking you off you have to make sure you're in a position to defend yourself! Anyone who thinks otherwise is a Communist.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:11 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
There's nothing wrong with CCW, but it's perfectly reasonable for both public and private institutions to ban firearms on their property.

This is something I totally agree with. Like I said earlier, Compton late at night with a red bandana? Yes, this is a situation where you can reasonably say defending yourself with lethal force is a legit concern. Going to church on Sunday, I'd have to vote no, and if you think you really need a gun in church then what you really need is a psychiatrist.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:13 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Rizen
 
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Who gave you the idea an individual right to property capable of launching a slug hundreds of feet per second, many times a second, accurately and discreetly, was absolute?
Who gave you the idea that it wasn't? Pretty sure it's written into our constitution and the individual right to bear arms was recently upheld, again, by our Supreme Court.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:16 PM Rizen is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Who gave you the idea that it wasn't? Pretty sure it's written into our constitution and the individual right to bear arms was recently upheld, again, by our Supreme Court.

Was that to bear arms openly in public? Like if I wanted to enter a shopping mall openly carrying an M4 Carbine, is this protected by the American Constitution? Notice how he said "absolute"? Obviously you're allowed to own a gun, that is the right that is protected. CCW is not nationally protected under the American constitution to my knowledge, and if it is than the states that don't participate would likely be in a mountain of crap by now.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:27 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
Was that to bear arms openly in public? .

Yes keep and BEAR arms. As in carry with you.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:32 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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