General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
mathlete
I'm the cheapest person on this planet, maybe the universe.
 
mathlete's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internets LOL View Post
34% of Americans are obese.
24% of Canadians are obese.

Based on your statistics and mine:

131 obese people / doctor in Canada.
126 obese people / doctor in America.

Got any more irrelevant points to make?
Old 08-29-2008, 02:50 PM mathlete is offline  
Reply With Quote
#166  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

teh_rapist
 
teh_rapist's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
I learn from my mistakes and do what I can to fix them Base 10 number system versus arbitrary measurements, I DUNNO GAIS WHAT DO YOU THINK!? Fuck you.

Dude, a lot of mechanical and civil engineering standards would have to be rewritten, not to mention a fuckton of molds and other manufacturing equipment modified if we transitioned from, say, 1" pipes to 2.5cm pipes. And if we just change the units but not the underlying quantities - then 1" pipe reads better than a 2.54" cm pipe. This goes for a lot of material strength data too. In fact, Russia, for example, uses inches for their piping standards.

First half of my education was in metric (Russia), the rest in English+Metric (US high school and college). I used to basically think just like you ("Fuck English units") - but I now see that for certain things, they are actually extremely good, better than metric, even if just for convenience sake. That's just my 2 cents though.

That having been said, the whole "cooperation on a global scale" is definitely something that I think would benefit this country. But Vendetta's right, most Americans don't really think that way.
__________________
Spare the rape - spoil the child.
Old 08-29-2008, 02:50 PM teh_rapist is offline  
Reply With Quote
#167  

Internets LOL
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Based on your statistics and mine:

131 obese people / doctor in Canada.
126 obese people / doctor in America.

Got any more irrelevant points to make?

There are more general practice physicians in Canada than America?

Got any more idiotic pipe dreams for me to shoot down?
Old 08-29-2008, 02:55 PM Internets LOL is offline  
Reply With Quote
#168  

Vendetta
That's "Doctor Vendetta" to you
 
Vendetta's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_rapist View Post
If you are referring to this photograph:

Then the only thing that makes it "naval" is the sailor. Alfred Eisenstaedt took the picture and was not from the navy; Edith Shain was a nurse in Doctor's Hospital in New York City. The photograph is usually called "V-J Day".

But yeah, I get what you are saying. Doesn't really matter what you call it. Just the photographer in me talking.

Yeah, I know the photo is a farce, but that doesn't make it any less iconic


Quote:
People would listen, a lot wouldn't take you seriously though. But start it, I know I'd listen (while touching myself). It's not like most OPs are taken seriously anyway.

Right, makes sense. (I am not trolling). I think most of your post relies on several scores and numbers, which I don't necessarily agree characterize a person's education, but ok, I can swing with that for argument's sake.I have one question though - Isn't the fact that the education in, particularly, the technical subjects, starts so late compared to other countries, hurting the system as a whole?
I personally have not seen any studies doing comparative analysis on American start dates versus other countries--but that of course does not mean they aren't out there. I'll look into it.

One particular experiment being created in New York is doing just this. It's called "The Equity Project" and is testing a lot of different "mysteries" in education

There WAS however a study done on very early childhood education (preschool availability) and its lasting effects...I'll see if I can find it.

What I can tell you is even with an early infusion of technical subjects and maintaining it continuously, all would be unraveled (on average) without the structural support that all children need developmentally.
[/quote]

Quote:
Dude, are you sure some humility wouldn't help? I mean, you are an adjunct professor (right? I seem to remember reading somewhere you were), not an internationally renown expert on some subject? Wouldn't it make you more convincing to be a wee bit less narcissistic?

Still though. Remember to post moar Jabba cat (yeah, yeah, I know you have to go home first, excuses, excuses...)

Yes, I am an adjunct professor of education. Not as you put it an "internationally renown expert". However, there are certain things in any subject that are generally accepted. For instance, no one in physics would suddenly say "I think gravity isnt 9.8 m/s2 because in my experience it doesnt seem right". Which is basically the response I get from some genmayers when I report on the accepted research and knowledge in the field of educational policy.

In education, there is established research on merit pay, bonuses, private vs public education, vouchers, poverty in education, teacher training and professional development, etc. I know of this research, I conduct some of it myself, and it is my BUSINESS to know educational policy like the back of my hand.
Old 08-29-2008, 03:02 PM Vendetta is offline  
Reply With Quote
#169  

mathlete
I'm the cheapest person on this planet, maybe the universe.
 
mathlete's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internets LOL View Post
There are more general practice physicians in Canada than America?

Got any more idiotic pipe dreams for me to shoot down?

Numerically, it looks like you're right on that point. You're still an idiot though.

General and Family Practitioners:

US: 111,990 = 2688/doctor
(2003) http://www.bls.gov/oes/2003/may/oes_29He.htm

Canada: 33,922 = 1002/doctor
(2008) http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Con...01SpecProv.pdf
Old 08-29-2008, 03:09 PM mathlete is offline  
Reply With Quote
#170  

Internets LOL
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Numerically, it looks like you're right on that point. You're still an idiot though.

General and Family Practitioners:

US: 111,990 = 2688/doctor
(2003) http://www.bls.gov/oes/2003/may/oes_29He.htm

Canada: 33,922 = 1002/doctor
(2008) http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Con...01SpecProv.pdf

Nationalized healthcare isn't going to work unless the number of family practice doctors comes up...along with their salary.
Old 08-29-2008, 03:14 PM Internets LOL is offline  
Reply With Quote
#171  

teh_rapist
 
teh_rapist's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Yeah, I know the photo is a farce, but that doesn't make it any less iconic
What about it is a farce? It's not staged, it's a legit photo of something that did actually happen on Times Square that day, and there is even another photo of the same event from a different angle shot by a different photographer (Victor Jorgensen):



I don't think I understand why you called it a farce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
I personally have not seen any studies doing comparative analysis on American start dates versus other countries--but that of course does not mean they aren't out there. I'll look into it.

One particular experiment being created in New York is doing just this. It's called "The Equity Project" and is testing a lot of different "mysteries" in education

There WAS however a study done on very early childhood education (preschool availability) and its lasting effects...I'll see if I can find it.

What I can tell you is even with an early infusion of technical subjects and maintaining it continuously, all would be unraveled (on average) without the structural support that all children need developmentally.

Yeah, I wasn't referring so much to preschool, I was referring more to like starting basic linear equations in 3rd grade, very basic physics in 6th, and so on. So essentially just spreading out Middle School + High School into Elementary+Middle+High Schools, and High School into Middle School + High School. I don't know of any studies, but I have experienced a different Elementary + Middle School than US, and it's hard for me to imagine that this would have 0 impact.

That having been said, I am certainly not questioning the fact that it's tough to be a good student in a shitty home (although definitely possible, but on average is not gonna happen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Yes, I am an adjunct professor of education. Not as you put it an "internationally renown expert". However, there are certain things in any subject that are generally accepted. For instance, no one in physics would suddenly say "I think gravity isnt 9.8 m/s2 because in my experience it doesnt seem right". Which is basically the response I get from some genmayers when I report on the accepted research and knowledge in the field of educational policy.
I wasn't saying you were wrong (I totally agree with what you said), I was saying you should chill a bit on the whole promoting yourself business. In other words, I think some humility would make s much more likely to listen to you and put some thought into responding to you if you showed some humility.

That having been said, while you are indicating one (main) source of the problem - the fact that you need a solid home to do well in school on average - there are still others, that have to do with the program (and not with the financing). Such as, for example, the fact that in the US in a public school you start a lot of mathematics much later than in, say, Eastern Europe, which (in my opinion, and I think many others' too - this is out of conversations with Russian profs) results in having less time to gain intuitive feel for many mathematical concepts that may help you later. And that you really don't have much of a choice, especially if public school is your only option. So I guess I was wondering - do you believe that Government (state or federal) should do something about upgrading school systems' programs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
In education, there is established research on merit pay, bonuses, private vs public education, vouchers, poverty in education, teacher training and professional development, etc. I know of this research, I conduct some of it myself, and it is my BUSINESS to know educational policy like the back of my hand.

Wait, so there is noone who is more of an expert on this stuff than you are? :: And again - I listen to the logic of what you are saying, not the tone in which you say it, so I agree with you - but if to someone your tone comes across as too pretentious or narcissistic, they won't take you seriously, even if what you are saying is 100% right. Although I mean if you are ok with that, you'll still find listeners (so make the thread dammit).
__________________
Spare the rape - spoil the child.
Old 08-29-2008, 03:41 PM teh_rapist is offline  
Reply With Quote
#172  

Vendetta
That's "Doctor Vendetta" to you
 
Vendetta's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_rapist View Post
What about it is a farce? It's not staged, it's a legit photo of something that did actually happen on Times Square that day, and there is even another photo of the same event from a different angle shot by a different photographer (Victor Jorgensen):



I don't think I understand why you called it a farce.
Well thats weird, I thought I recalled hearing that it was re-created. Maybe I was confusing it with something else. Ah well, learning something new today


Quote:
Yeah, I wasn't referring so much to preschool, I was referring more to like starting basic linear equations in 3rd grade, very basic physics in 6th, and so on. So essentially just spreading out Middle School + High School into Elementary+Middle+High Schools, and High School into Middle School + High School. I don't know of any studies, but I have experienced a different Elementary + Middle School than US, and it's hard for me to imagine that this would have 0 impact.

That having been said, I am certainly not questioning the fact that it's tough to be a good student in a shitty home (although definitely possible, but on average is not gonna happen).
Hm, that IS an advanced schedule...I'll look into this and let you know what I find

Quote:
I wasn't saying you were wrong (I totally agree with what you said), I was saying you should chill a bit on the whole promoting yourself business. In other words, I think some humility would make s much more likely to listen to you and put some thought into responding to you if you showed some humility.

That having been said, while you are indicating one (main) source of the problem - the fact that you need a solid home to do well in school on average - there are still others, that have to do with the program (and not with the financing). Such as, for example, the fact that in the US in a public school you start a lot of mathematics much later than in, say, Eastern Europe, which (in my opinion, and I think many others' too - this is out of conversations with Russian profs) results in having less time to gain intuitive feel for many mathematical concepts that may help you later. And that you really don't have much of a choice, especially if public school is your only option. So I guess I was wondering - do you believe that Government (state or federal) should do something about upgrading school systems' programs?
Believe it or not, the US educational curriculum has undergone massive change. In the early 20th century, there was no established curriculum. States were left up to their own devices and we suddenly found tons of instances of "home making" and worse (I can't recall the specific examples at the moment). Before federal regulation, the US educational curriculum was simply laughable.

Quote:
Wait, so there is noone who is more of an expert on this stuff than you are? :: And again - I listen to the logic of what you are saying, not the tone in which you say it, so I agree with you - but if to someone your tone comes across as too pretentious or narcissistic, they won't take you seriously, even if what you are saying is 100% right. Although I mean if you are ok with that, you'll still find listeners (so make the thread dammit).
Of course there is, I never said that. However, I'm fairly confident that in the general mayhem population, I am one of the most knowledgeable persons when it comes to educational policy / research.

My tone was, for the past year or so, very "helpful" and straightforward. And then I got argued with by my aforementioned problem of the head-in-the-sand complex. If they ignore the facts and just assume the world is how they view it, the bad men with the established research trying to help will go away.

Last edited by Vendetta; 08-29-2008 at 05:56 PM..
Old 08-29-2008, 05:51 PM Vendetta is offline  
Reply With Quote
#173  

teh_rapist
 
teh_rapist's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Well thats weird, I thought I recalled hearing that it was re-created. Maybe I was confusing it with something else. Ah well, learning something new today
Nah, V-J Day in Times Square is real, and well-established. However, you may be thinking of this picture:

This is Flag Raising at Iwo Jima (after the Battle of Iwo Jima). The first instance the flag was raised there was this:



And then they thought the first flag was too small, and decided to shoot another picture (and film it too) of the second flag being raised. That was completely staged (although still on location).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Hm, that IS an advanced schedule...I'll look into this and let you know what I find
Well, that's the general public school schedule. In private and also specialized public schools that stuff can start even earlier, but those are more comparable to "Gifted Education" (or whatever that's called) in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Believe it or not, the US educational curriculum has undergone massive change. In the early 20th century, there was no established curriculum. States were left up to their own devices and we suddenly found tons of instances of "home making" and worse (I can't recall the specific examples at the moment). Before federal regulation, the US educational curriculum was simply laughable.
Right. I believe you. I guess my question was - do you think the fed. government (or states, or both) should continue modifying the current required curriculum, or it's enough to only concentrate on economic factors like making sure kids have a quiet warm place to study etc? And also - I am not trolling, I am just trying to understand - how would modifying the financing of the schools help the situations at home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Of course there is, I never said that. However, I'm fairly confident that in the general mayhem population, I am one of the most knowledgeable persons when it comes to educational policy / research.
I have no doubt about that. Again, I was questioning your tone, not your knowledge. It just came as if you were posing yourself to be more of an authority than you really were (not on Gen[M]ay, but in the academia. On Gen[M]ay only Bunchies is an authority.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
My tone was, for the past year or so, very "helpful" and straightforward. And then I got argued with by my aforementioned problem of the head-in-the-sand complex. If they ignore the facts and just assume the world is how they view it, the bad men with the established research trying to help will go away.

To me, it came across as more narcissistic than helpful and straightforward, but maybe it's just me. In any case, are you gonna make the thread? I am genuinely interested now. Worst comes to worst, will still be some decent discussion.
__________________
Spare the rape - spoil the child.
Old 08-29-2008, 06:21 PM teh_rapist is offline  
Reply With Quote
#174  

swigger
 
swigger's Avatar
 


Old 08-31-2008, 08:42 AM swigger is offline  
Reply With Quote
#175  

tost
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internets LOL View Post
Canada's population: ~34 million
US's population: ~301 million

Just imagine how bad it's going to get when EVERYONE gets a checkup. 30 year olds that haven't had a single checkup in their lives. Homeless people with festering leg wounds. Drug addicts with infected track marks all over their body. Grotesquely obese land whales. How happy do you think doctors are going to be about this? Do you think they want to take a pay cut to see MORE people that are going to appreciate their care LESS?
yeah, boohoo doctors. if the current capitalistic system is left to its own devices, they'll be begging for socialized medicine come 20 years from now. the wheels are already being set in motion: walgreens are already opening their own in-house "clinics." you know that means walmart's not far behind, and once walmart gets involved, that's pretty much game over for the medical profession. if people could look past their short-term greed and see what's better for everyone in the long run, we'd be a lot better off than we are right now.
Old 08-31-2008, 11:23 AM tost is offline  
Reply With Quote
#176  

Internets LOL
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tost View Post
yeah, boohoo doctors. if the current capitalistic system is left to its own devices, they'll be begging for socialized medicine come 20 years from now. the wheels are already being set in motion: walgreens are already opening their own in-house "clinics." you know that means walmart's not far behind, and once walmart gets involved, that's pretty much game over for the medical profession. if people could look past their short-term greed and see what's better for everyone in the long run, we'd be a lot better off than we are right now.

I doubt the medical profession will ever get to that. A more likely scenario is doctors saying fuck insurance companies and starting boutique practices.
Old 08-31-2008, 09:06 PM Internets LOL is offline  
Reply With Quote
#177  

teh_rapist
 
teh_rapist's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internets LOL View Post
I doubt the medical profession will ever get to that. A more likely scenario is doctors saying fuck insurance companies and starting boutique practices.

And pharmaceutical companies will do the same?
__________________
Spare the rape - spoil the child.
Old 08-31-2008, 09:10 PM teh_rapist is offline  
Reply With Quote
#178  

Internets LOL
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_rapist View Post
And pharmaceutical companies will do the same?

Patients reimburse physicians with cash. Physicians still write prescriptions but it's up to the patient to pay for the prescription with insurance.
Old 08-31-2008, 09:18 PM Internets LOL is offline  
Reply With Quote
#179  

teh_rapist
 
teh_rapist's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internets LOL View Post
Patients reimburse physicians with cash. Physicians still write prescriptions but it's up to the patient to pay for the prescription with insurance.

Ok, get this part. How about lengthy treatments and diagnostic procedures, like MRIs, or chemo therapies? Do u still pay for physician's time out of pocket and insurance pays for everything else? Or what are you proposing here?
__________________
Spare the rape - spoil the child.
Old 08-31-2008, 09:36 PM teh_rapist is offline  
Reply With Quote
#180  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:58 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.