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pyramid
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Originally Posted by SamFarber View Post
Funny how it is the Classic Liberal who envisions a society where everyone is educated and literate. The "Modern" Liberal, who is actually a Socialist, wants a large uneducated, illiterate subclass that they can exploit for their own gains.

If by "modern liberal" you mean Neo-Conservative.

I'd also change socialist to fascist because they really only want corporate welfare, not welfare for the peons. Socialists might actually believe in some kind of social contract...
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:17 PM pyramid is offline  
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:25 PM ieyeasu is offline  
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So you figured out that 100 billion isn't enough to run public health care based on the fact that people will stop paying for it if it becomes free?


I dont know why your having problems with this logic. If something is provided for free by the government what incentive do people have to continue to pay for their own. Of course this depends on if its quality health insurance or not.

Ok joe makes 50k a year and spends 2k a year on health insurance for his whole family. Government rolls out its new universal health care for everyone who DOESNT have it. Joe looks at the free goverment healthcare and OMG its the same as what hes paying 2k a year for now. Joe isnt going to continue to pay 2k a year. He will drop his healthcare and let the govt provide it.
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Last edited by Figment; 10-02-2007 at 11:34 PM..
Old 10-02-2007, 11:30 PM Figment is offline  
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It seems to work well for Japan and many other modern nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_health_care
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care
Don't miss: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...comes_compared If you actually click links.


Universal health care can work, that wasnt the point of my reply. The figure in question was the 100 billion, not the fact it couldent work. Se above reply.
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:33 PM Figment is offline  
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It's kind of unfair to say they're costing money. They do put money back into the economy by getting paid, then wasting their money on groceries and the whole nine yards. I see it as a hidden population in the US that still contributes whether or not they're officially noticed.

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It is not difficult to keep them out. It is not difficult to round them up and deport them. Eisenhower did it.

If it's not difficult then the government must not be doing much to stop them. The media makes it out that the US is concerned about illegal immigration. If it wasn't difficult then I'd assume something would have been done already.
Old 10-02-2007, 11:43 PM KoL is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figment View Post
I dont know why your having problems with this logic. If something is provided for free by the government what incentive do people have to continue to pay for their own. Of course this depends on if its quality health insurance or not.

Ok joe makes 50k a year and spends 2k a year on health insurance for his whole family. Government rolls out its new universal health care for everyone who DOESNT have it. Joe looks at the free goverment healthcare and OMG its the same as what hes paying 2k a year for now. Joe isnt going to continue to pay 2k a year. He will drop his healthcare and let the govt provide it.

Yes, and it's projected that 100 billion would cover all this.
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Old 10-03-2007, 12:07 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Universal health care can work, that wasnt the point of my reply. The figure in question was the 100 billion, not the fact it couldent work. Se above reply.

Why can every other modernized nation with universal health care beat us in a per capita spending match while still providing better or equally rated health care to everyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...comes_compared
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:44 AM pyramid is offline  
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does the article say how much they put into the local economy?
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:16 AM Kidane is offline  
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does the article say how much they put into the local economy?

By "put in to the local economy" you mean "steal from the local community and send back to Mexico" and no, they don't. But they should.
Old 10-03-2007, 06:22 AM freddy is offline  
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Why are we talking about health care? The only thing you need to know about that is if you think it is lousy now, think how it will be when averaged in with a bunch of 3rd worlders. Doctor's offices will be like a public bus. You will get TB while waiting in the waiting room.
Old 10-03-2007, 06:26 AM freddy is offline  
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Figment
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Yes, and it's projected that 100 billion would cover all this.

LOL no its not. 100 billion is not the # thats required to give everyone in the US healthcare its the number thats required to give it to people who dont have it.

X=People without healthcare NOW.
Y= Cost of providing healthcare to people.

X * Y = 100 billion

When X goes up so does the final figure.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:24 PM Figment is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figment View Post
LOL no its not. 100 billion is not the # thats required to give everyone in the US healthcare its the number thats required to give it to people who dont have it.

X=People without healthcare NOW.
Y= Cost of providing healthcare to people.

X * Y = 100 billion

When X goes up so does the final figure.

Why don't you read about some of the proposed plans. It's not as a simple as "free healthcare to anyone that wants it".

Also, I looked up the numbers. According to a Time magazine article, it's estimated about 1/3 of the 45 million uninsured people could afford it but choose not to. These are all people that would start paying into a universal system through taxes regardless of whether they take advantage of it or not.
Old 10-03-2007, 02:30 PM mathlete is offline  
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Figment
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Why don't you read about some of the proposed plans. It's not as a simple as "free healthcare to anyone that wants it".

Also, I looked up the numbers. According to a Time magazine article, it's estimated about 1/3 of the 45 million uninsured people could afford it but choose not to. These are all people that would start paying into a universal system through taxes regardless of whether they take advantage of it or not.

I know its not. It was a discussion about in depth healthcare and policy. It was just that IMO the 100 billion cost they put out as a catch all was BS.
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:14 PM Figment is offline  
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Other issues to consider are helping Mexico with its problems so that its problems don't become our problems. Have we considered asking Mexico to start teaching English in their schools? I learned Spanish in my California high school. I'm sure there are other ways we could help them improve their country and make it a more habitable and less flee-able place for their citizens.
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:40 PM uRizen is offline  
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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Why can every other modernized nation with universal health care beat us in a per capita spending match while still providing better or equally rated health care to everyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...comes_compared

yes New York is not constantly flooded with canadians fleeing their healthcare

get a fucking clue
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:55 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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