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FBAnder
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renork View Post
Give me an example of something that can never and will never be explained and prove that it will never be explained. Otherwise you are saying that scientists should give up when they are stuck and take the word of theologians as absolute truth.

I can't.
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Old 09-17-2007, 07:56 PM FBAnder is offline  
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Originally Posted by FBAnder View Post
I can't.

So in what circumstances is it appropriate for scientists to give up and take the word of theologians then?
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:11 PM Renork is offline  
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SnakeIRye
 
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I don't find it necessary to attack atheism; I do however think an atheist who actively asserts that my God does not exist because I cannot prove his existence to be a hypocrite.

How dare somebody ask for proof when I make a ridiculous claim! That might make me look stupid and I find that offensive

Edit: Find the post where I said that god does not exist 100%. Of course you will not find it, perhaps you were referring to when I basically said, 'The abrahamic god almost certainly doesn't exist, by the looks of every scientific field.'

Though if you can even remotely prove jesus
1.Was born a virgin
2.Turned water into wine
3.Raised Lazurus from the dead
4.Rose from the dead.
You might have some kind of standing in reality. Just don't get butt hurt when your superstitions are held up to legit questions.
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Last edited by SnakeIRye; 09-17-2007 at 08:54 PM..
Old 09-17-2007, 08:40 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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SnakeIRye
 
The easily refuted. Also updated at top.

1. Atheism is just as radical as any other religion.
-Once you start on atheism, the next thing you know, you're just like Stalin, Mao...
Mao and Stalin did not do horrible things in the name of Atheism. If you want to see what
holding onto hopeless ideals besides religion look like, look their way

-Atheists want to ban religion
Maybe some do, I've never met one. Though, I have met many religious who want atheists and gays deported or killed
-When you criticize religion, you are as fanatic as an abortion clinic bomber and a suicide bomber.
This one speaks for itself

2. Religion is useful and so useful it is necessary.
-It keeps the masses under control...
Very fuckin pretentious. 'You and I may be smart enough to live respectful lives without religion, but all of the monkeys below me couldn't handle it'
-Without religion, there would be no beautiful religious art(yeah I've heard that brought up)
...and without religion we would probably be on our 100th year of intergalactic space travel, what's your point?
-My/Their version of god doesn't do the stuff he says he does inside the bible/koran/torah, he makes me pet bunnies and give to charities that help bunnies
Unfortunately for all of us, there are people who take the bible word for word who are destroying civilization. Plus, doing charitable work for fear of eternal hellfire kind of makes the whole deal suspicious. People do goo things regardless of religion.
-Without religion, people would rape and murder everybody they wanted!
Just take a look at 'atheist' countries like Japan and the Scandinavian countries, they're killing each other like monkeys! While 98% christian country mexico has a murder rate of 14 per 100k, yay!
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:07 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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SnakeIRye
 
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would you say I am under 'control'?

No, I would say you are under control(sans the quotes) You are under the control of your inflated ego, not very buddha like by the way. You have this notion that all religions and atheism is false, except yours of course and you're not even humble about it(again, not very buddha like) Even the Dali Lama is somewhat atheist and open to evidence and you are only open to your own cycle of ignorance.
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:19 PM SnakeIRye is offline  
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Now, if you're talking about arguing the assertion that there is definitely no god...well, that's even harder to prove than the validity of any given religion.
Or impossible. Just how does one prove that anything doesn't exist, a god or otherwise? There are no invisible unicorns in the room with me but you can never prove it. We put the burden of proof on the one making the claim and assume the existence of nothing unless proven otherwise.
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:51 PM Soybomb is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Oh wow! Just what we needed!

ANOTHER DEBATE ABOUT RELIGION IN THE PIT!

I'm sure this will result in a useful exchange of ideas and respecting of differences of opinions like it always does!
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:17 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by mike27 View Post

what are you talking about
you're using these words completely arbitrarily

I am redefining the words to be more in touch with reality and get you guys out of neurosis. My arbitrary use of 'sensory perception' is to make the notion of delusion and hallucination more accurate.

For example, happiness is a sensory perception of stimuli's and sensory mechanisms that exist at a purely molecular, internal level.

I am redefining because the previous definition does not take enough into account. Delusion and hallucination are remarkably similar in terms of the underlying psychological mechanism that make them function. Yes they may take input from different places, they may out the result in different places, but the internal process is doing the same thing.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:43 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Oh wow! Just what we needed!

ANOTHER DEBATE ABOUT RELIGION IN THE PIT!

I'm sure this will result in a useful exchange of ideas and respecting of differences of opinions like it always does!

Religous debates will always be necessary until there is one religion. Or no not religion, religion is a bad word for this. Spiritual viewpoint, one spiritual viewpoint.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:46 PM ry_goody is offline  
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I am redefining the words to be more in touch with reality and get you guys out of neurosis. My arbitrary use of 'sensory perception' is to make the notion of delusion and hallucination more accurate.

For example, happiness is a sensory perception of stimuli's and sensory mechanisms that exist at a purely molecular, internal level.

I am redefining because the previous definition does not take enough into account. Delusion and hallucination are remarkably similar in terms of the underlying psychological mechanism that make them function. Yes they may take input from different places, they may out the result in different places, but the internal process is doing the same thing.

I swear my brain will explode if I read your for too long
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:58 PM mike27 is offline  
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cromicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
I am redefining the words to be more in touch with reality and get you guys out of neurosis. My arbitrary use of 'sensory perception' is to make the notion of delusion and hallucination more accurate.

For example, happiness is a sensory perception of stimuli's and sensory mechanisms that exist at a purely molecular, internal level.

I am redefining because the previous definition does not take enough into account. Delusion and hallucination are remarkably similar in terms of the underlying psychological mechanism that make them function. Yes they may take input from different places, they may out the result in different places, but the internal process is doing the same thing.
i prefer my neurosis to what ever the hell makes you think like this
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:02 PM cromicus is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
Religous debates will always be necessary until there is one religion. Or no not religion, religion is a bad word for this. Spiritual viewpoint, one spiritual viewpoint.

How is it a necessity for there to be only one viewpoint?
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:43 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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i prefer my neurosis to what ever the hell makes you think like this

Understandable.

But I believe your opposition is largely a product of you not understanding yourself.
Lets turn the tables of our two sides here.

"I prefer my neurosis to what ever the hell makes you think like this"

I have provided much basis to the creation of my intuitions and feelings. But do you know what yours are? I know where your words came from, science, school textbooks. But where did your feelings and intuitions come from. The thing that when you wake up, walk outside and feel purpose or direction, where did that feeling come from? When you encounter another person you've never met and feeling or intuition points you in a direction of social conduct with them, where did that intuition or feeling come from?

When I make posts on here and you read them, then they create a certain feeling in you, do you know what that feeling is and do you know where it came from and why it is there?

Because I suppose the basis of your intuitions and feelings are the product of an extreme amount of delusion, but since you have no concept to identify or comprehend them directly you cannot see this. I do not think you know what the base is because you still have not presented a single thing to me that would allow me to recreate that reality tunnel of the base in myself and comprehend things from your eyes.
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:53 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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I swear my brain will explode if I read your for too long

feeling of mental pressure is a good thing, it will cause headaches at first but thats just the process of adaptation occuring, like aches after a work out
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:54 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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How is it a necessity for there to be only one viewpoint?

Because the current state of religion has presented what will happen if there isn't. This is a process of learning from history.

Plus there is a very obvious viewpoint that everyone can reside under. Get over the fact it's easy to make fun of hippie bullshits of peace love and nature and recognize there is much basis to it and that is typically the reason why people must laugh, rather than rationalize, against it. That being the viewpoints assimilated from the concept of gaia and natural order. It is no delusion to consider we were created of the earth and should assimilate our spiritual concepts from it.

I honestly believe all modern religions spawned off this one viewpoint, but after a 5000 year game of telephone and losing touch with the original source of divine spark everyone has split off and developed there own unconnected viewpoints of it. The concept of UNITY did not come from psychadellic culture by mere accident. It creates the concept of unity of all, because it is the base of it all. In it is the idea of unity because of this.

I do not like to suppose the divine spark came from some intangible cosmological energy flow that randomly came down and slapped the 'select' few. I prefer to believe the divine spark was a tangible energy source we could observe in nature and absorb into us by eating it. My viewpoints are nothing more than the attempt to ground the 'intangible' concepts of spirituality into tangible reality. It is possible to ground spirituality and get it out of the floaty abstract. And I believe everything starts grounded.
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