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ry_goody
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
This post has absolutely nothing to do with you using facts, that can be easily debunked using physical science, to support whatever viewpoint the drugs you're on at that moment in time are giving you. Remember... what I was calling you out on? That your response completely missed?

But please, hope that by writing more and digressing into endless tangents that we'll forget what we were arguing in the first place, and raise you upon our shoulders declaring you the King of Logic and Truth.

You said

"And who decides which concepts are perpetuated by nature? You? The problem itself lies in the fact that you are the decider of what is real and what is not. Which makes you a moron."

I explained why i wasn't the decider. That wasn't a tangent in the least. It was extremely on track and perfectly accurate response.

Are YOU trying to hope I forget what we were talking about?
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:45 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody, you make my brain cry.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:46 PM Renork is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Make an assertion one way or another is not illogical or even unscientific. You can compare the evidence of both sides (books, eyewitness accounts, various unexplained phenomenon vs lack of any hard evidence, logical contradictions and paradoxes of the supernatural, seemingly God-free development of the Universe) and make your choice. The problem isn't that there is no evidence, it's that it's not conclusive either way. Personally I'd say observations of the development of the universe and the inability of theists to produce any evidence outside of extremely subjective personal accounts and holy books points very strongly towards the supernatural being a human invention, but if people draw a different conclusion from that evidence I can't tell them they're absolutely wrong.

A human invention like music? Or a human invention like the english language?

Both of those things rely on underlying psychological principles to function.

I would say all descriptions are human inventions. But at the base, something along the lines of the description, what the description aims at to utilize, is extremely real.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:48 PM ry_goody is offline  
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:ninja:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
Evidence is not required in order to prove the negative - you must provide evidence to support the affirmative claim, otherwise there's no reason to accept or consider it in the first place. I don't even need to "deny" your claim if you can't provide evidence... I could even go as far as to say you don't have a claim if there's no evidence to support it.
Jesus Christ, did you fall off the shortbus before it got to the special olympics and land in the pit?

"God Exists" and "God does not exist" are both affirmative claims. Both bear the burden of proof.

A lack of proof of existence is not proof of nonexistence.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:49 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
This is really not that hard to figure out.

Vagina believes in God
You do not

Apparently it is, since I don't believe in God.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:50 PM :ninja: is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Jesus Christ, did you fall off the shortbus before it got to the special olympics and land in the pit?

"God Exists" and "God does not exist" are both affirmative claims. Both bear the burden of proof.

A lack of proof of existence is not proof of nonexistence.

vagina is right here

the simple truth of the matter is, no has provided perfect evidence for whether or not mankind started out with or without God

But by the philosophies of the past 50 years, there is kind a defensible argument that mankind started out with God. But I'm not gonna push that here. I'm just gonna say, you guys do not know for sure whether or not we started with or without God. I mean is it really that hard to notice that, Christians did not invent deities? Seriously, mankind has been making them since the moment he could pick up a piece of charcoal and draw on a cave wall. I would say that the notion to remove all concept of deities is a recent advent of mankind's goals in the last 50 years or so.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:52 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Apparently it is, since I don't believe in God.

oh, I misunderstood your goals... just replace your name with someone on here who does
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:53 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
oh, I misunderstood your goals... just replace your name with someone on here who does


I'm actually playing Devil's Advocate, though I'm doing a poor job.


You'll enjoy this next tidbit:

Through my use of psychedelics I've had personal experiences that lead me to believe that there is some prime mover, though who or what it is, or whether it deserves worship, I do not know.


So technically, yes, I do... though I assumed you were talking about the Christian God, which I can mostly rule out as an option.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:56 PM :ninja: is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post


I'm actually playing Devil's Advocate, though I'm doing a poor job.


You'll enjoy this next tidbit:

Through my use of psychedelics I've had personal experiences that lead me to believe that there is some prime mover, though who or what it is, or whether it deserves worship, I do not know.


So technically, yes, I do... though I assumed you were talking about the Christian God, which I can mostly rule out as an option.

Yes the.... transcendental object at the end of time, in the dimension known as the future. What attracts us by feelings of euphoria and ecstacy.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...eoID=894154189
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:07 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Jesus Christ, did you fall off the shortbus before it got to the special olympics and land in the pit?

"God Exists" and "God does not exist" are both affirmative claims. Both bear the burden of proof.

A lack of proof of existence is not proof of nonexistence.



I'm done with you after this post if you continue to fail in basic logic.

Anyone who says god exists is making an affirmative factual claim. I can reject their claim and deny that god exists without using an affirmative argument myself. If I then take it one step further and provide my own evidence and reasons for the non-existence of god THEN I would be making an affirmative claim.
Old 09-20-2007, 06:11 PM Ralph is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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I'm done with you after this post if you continue to fail in basic logic.

Anyone who says god exists is making an affirmative factual claim. I can reject their claim and deny that god exists without using an affirmative argument myself. If I then take it one step further and provide my own evidence and reasons for the non-existence of god THEN I would be making an affirmative claim.


No, you are making a very incorrect assumption.

Lets start at the beginning, not at what you HOPE the beginning was.

Prove mankind started out without God.

As in prove the first societies were atheist, not spiritual.

because you are making an affirmative claim, because what you claim was not the default state, it's an addition, it's a change from the original
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:15 PM ry_goody is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
No, you are making a very incorrect assumption.

Lets start at the beginning, not at what you HOPE the beginning was.

Prove mankind started out without God.

As in prove the first societies were atheist, not spiritual.

because you are making an affirmative claim, because what you claim was not the default state, it's an addition, it's a change from the original

Our ancestors WERE superstitious, and believed in gods and to some extent more recently developed monotheism. But the fact that our brains are hardwired to believe in god, etc. doesn't lend credence to the idea of god's existence. Rather, our predisposition is much better explained by religion being evolutionarily beneficial to our ancestors. That does not mean it is a good thing in modern society, and it certainly does not believe its true.
Old 09-20-2007, 06:28 PM SkuzzleButt is offline  
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Ralph
 
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Originally Posted by ry_goody View Post
No, you are making a very incorrect assumption.

Lets start at the beginning, not at what you HOPE the beginning was.

Prove mankind started out without God.

As in prove the first societies were atheist, not spiritual.

because you are making an affirmative claim, because what you claim was not the default state, it's an addition, it's a change from the original

argumentum ad antiquitatem... the fallacious reasoning continues
Old 09-20-2007, 06:38 PM Ralph is offline  
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ry_goody
 
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Originally Posted by SkuzzleButt View Post
Our ancestors WERE superstitious, and believed in gods and to some extent more recently developed monotheism. But the fact that our brains are hardwired to believe in god, etc. doesn't lend credence to the idea of god's existence. Rather, our predisposition is much better explained by religion being evolutionarily beneficial to our ancestors. That does not mean it is a good thing in modern society, and it certainly does not believe its true.

You got it exactly right. Belief in some great attractor at the end does aid evolutionary survival because it provides subjective unity of goal and purpose in a society.

This is obvious even today by science and atheist minded individuals heavily engrossed into the US culture and way of life. The US like all cultures and societies before it will fall, and with it these people.

Leaving the people who can currently see the great point at the end to reach for, the thing that dictates perfected ways to live life, untouched unscathed, because it's currently pulling them out of US culture. All atheists have done is trade the one true light of unity, love and euphoria on earth for some evil combination of necessity, obligation and evil.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:41 PM ry_goody is offline  
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ieyeasu
 
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A lack of evidence is not proof of nonexistence. Yet, a lack of proof of nonexistence is not proof of existence.

I thought you were smarter than this. I suppose I gave you too much credit.

You and I--and everyone else--choose to live life as if things that are unobservable and inconsequential don't exist.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:41 PM ieyeasu is offline  
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