UPS Bailout - I'd like to hit this guy with a shovel

[Louche]

The video and the FedEx funded website:
http://www.brownbailout.com/

I'm a SE for UPS and know that while we've tightened our belts, we've been doing really well considering. My division has seen revenue and profit growths this year despite the economy. UPS as a whole has not had to have layoffs or diminish wages (we ARE on a wage freeze for the time being though).

But now I've been hearing about this "bailout" . I know it might seem brutal given FedEx's current economic standpoint -- They were forced to take a company-wide 5% wage decrease last year and are losing a lot of money... but UPS has been pushing for this bill (re: bailout) for a long time.

Currently FedEx drivers are classified under different laws than UPS drivers due to the huge amount of money they spent on marketing their image as an overnight express carrier, when in fact UPS provides the exact same services as FedEx, but is labeled as a ground shipper by public image. Both companies have a huge arsenal of aircraft and trucks alike which carry their packages. In the end, every single freaking package is on a truck driven by a person. For UPS it's the teamsters. For FedEx, it's "independent contractors" that aren't allowed to work for any other shipping service and are heavily restricted. FedEx doesn't have to pay them benefits like social security matching, they can't unionize, among a long list of other crap they get away with by misclassifying and mistreating their drivers. It's even started going to court as you can see from websites like this http://www.fedexdriverslawsuit.com/

All in all, I think it's ridiculous how this company tries to fight it's battles with smear campaigns and is attempting to lead the public into thinking UPS is trying to get government money by using the term "bailout" for the bill.

[:ninja:]

Fuck you and your teamsters.

Workers' unions are fucking jokes now.

[Frenetic]

Wait, so you ARE requesting a bailout from congress? If you guys are tightening your belts and seeing better profit margins, why are you pursuing a bailout? Is having union truck drivers that damaging for you guys?

[Zangmonkey]

:sigh:
Unions serve a good purpose sometimes: they need to negotiate contracts as a whole on behalf of those they represent.
However, union leadership does their members a disservice by being so spineless.
It is sometimes in the best interest to negotiate wage decreases to sustain employment. They will never do this in a system which hands out money willy-nilly and may or may not give union leaders control of the companies themselves.

On a related note: How great is it that UAW would not negotiate salaries or retirements benefits; then they were given control of GM and the first thing they did was cut benefits?

[Frenetic]

Also, is having 400 more planes than you guys what pushed Fed Ex into RLA regulations? I'd honestly like to know because I'm iffy on this. Because it seems that their focus is parcel delivery flown in by planes then handed off to trucks, while UPS is a company that got planes because it had to, and is in 9th place for civil fleet size and Fed Ex is 1st place.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the rhetoric of both sides here. UPS is an older company with union rules that bog it down and Fed Ex is a younger company that used independent contractors for better long term profit margins. You showed in that last link the problems that can cause. However, I do feel a bit biased here, because Fed Ex has treated me and my mail far better than UPS ever has. They are faster, more efficient, and their customer service has always been stellar to me. I haven't used UPS on purpose for two years now, and I have no intention on going back to them.

Let me ask you, if UPS were simply allowed to operate on the same rules as Fed Ex so you could compete more equally (I mean you'd need more planes, sure), would you be okay with that?

[Jack Fickleson]

Unions no longer serve the purpose they one did.

However, I'd rather see UPS and Fedex survive, and possibly grow. The US Postal Service is a joke and needs the competition.

"Delivery confirmation"... yes, that's a joke. You pay EXTRA for a barcode sticker which is scanned at acceptance and "delivery". But it doesn't give any information as to WHERE it went, merely that the driver scanned it as "delivered". Went to the wrong house? Wrong town? Up yours!

"Insurance"... another worthless service. You must have some solid proof of the item's value, and even then, they must agree with it. An ebay sale price isn't sufficient. Things such as antique valuables and artwork can NOT be insured as they only cover "cost of materials". In other words, if they ruin the Mona Lisa, they're only bound to pay for the canvas and paints. They are set up to legaly avoid paying.

Meanwhile, I can ship something by Fedex or UPS, receive full, detailed tracking at every step, final delivery address, and proper insurance at roughly the same price. I've also noticed online stores offer Fedex and UPS as a cheaper option than USPS, no doubt to discourage customers from buying an inferior service.

[Patriotic Eagle]

Fedex is a piece of shit company and the contrast between how it treats its workers and how UPS treats theirs shows why unions are important.

[Patriotic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Frenetic

Wait, so you ARE requesting a bailout from congress? If you guys are tightening your belts and seeing better profit margins, why are you pursuing a bailout? Is having union truck drivers that damaging for you guys?

UPS is not getting a bailout. What Fedex is claiming is a bailout is legislation that would make it easier for their workers to unionize. UPS is getting no federal money and fedex is lying through their teeth.

[Patriotic Eagle]

Have people opposed to unions ever questioned why the shift from unionized manufacturing jobs to non unionized service jobs has resulted in a stagnation or drop in the standard of living for many working class Americans? Must be because unions are evil.

[Tom Kazansky]

Originally Posted by Zangmonkey

On a related note: How great is it that UAW would not negotiate salaries or retirements benefits; then they were given control of GM and the first thing they did was cut benefits?

Link to the details of the cut? I know they cut some, but I didn't see which were cut (beyond the "viagra benefit", I'm not joking).

I did find that funny too.

[Tom Kazansky]

I remember some of the teamsters at work (Bruce Nuclear Generating Station in Ontario) refused a package we needed to get some work done because FedEx is non-union. People subsequently wonder why this industry is often over-budget.

[Tom Kazansky]

Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle

Have people opposed to unions ever questioned why the shift from unionized manufacturing jobs to non unionized service jobs has resulted in a stagnation or drop in the standard of living for many working class Americans? Must be because unions are evil.

There's nothing wrong with unions, but the problem with unions today is they have become as corrupt as the corporations they fought against at the beginning of the labour movement, when workers abroad were genuinely taken advantage of. If unions would go back to their roots, I bet things would be better. Unions in the modern world protect the stupid and bog down industry to the point where it negatively affects the economy for everyone, and we eventually have to pay for it (see: auto industry). Where I was working, union members would fuck the dog during the week just so they could work double time on the weekends. There's a lot of stories about older union members bullying younger union members into slowing down so they wont have to work as hard. If this weren't the case, I would have no issue with unions at all. This is a problem that requires addressing.

[Frenetic]

Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle

UPS is not getting a bailout. What Fedex is claiming is a bailout is legislation that would make it easier for their workers to unionize. UPS is getting no federal money and fedex is lying through their teeth.

Bailouts don't require money. They just require government intervention.

[Louche]

Originally Posted by Frenetic

Wait, so you ARE requesting a bailout from congress? If you guys are tightening your belts and seeing better profit margins, why are you pursuing a bailout? Is having union truck drivers that damaging for you guys?

This is the whole point of my post. UPS is NOT looking for government money. FedEx is using the word "bailout" to refer to a bill that we are lobbying for that would require them to perform under the same laws that UPS has to abide by -- we have the teamsters and don't see why fedex should be immune from the same thing

[Louche]

Originally Posted by Frenetic

Let me ask you, if UPS were simply allowed to operate on the same rules as Fed Ex so you could compete more equally (I mean you'd need more planes, sure), would you be okay with that?

Yes, absolutely. Doesn't seem fair we have to deal with unions when our direct competition doesn't, ya know?