New BMW M3 vs. used M6 -- or something else maybe?

[DreamWarrior]

It seems that used M6's are available within the same price range as a new M3. The problem with the M6 is that I can not find any close to me to drive. So, I'm coming here to get some opinions of the car beyond what a review can offer.

Further, getting a used car that has already taken the biggest hit on its resale value seems like a good deal. However, a new car is always nice. So, balancing new vs. used, the performance of both, and the availabilty of a test drive versus the "exclusive" nature of the M6 around here, I'm curious what this forum would do when chosing between the two.

Some more pointed questions for any that may know and/or want to inject their opinions:

How is the V10 engine in the M5/M6 compared to the V8 in the new M3?

What about the SMG in the M6, which has received mixed reviews, compared to the DCT in the M3? I've heard bad things in reviews about both, but I suppose one has to be livable. At least I can test drive the M3 and know what I am getting in to. I know, purists would say I'm "neutering" the car, but a manual is out; my wife can not drive them and I am getting tired of dealing with them in traffic.

From a performance stand-point, it seems the lighter M3 is pretty much on par with the M6 according to reviews. Fuel efficiency also gets a nod, if only a slight nod, to the M3 -- though fuel efficiency in these cars is not something I care too much about. I suppose with less weight, the M3 should also be a bit more tossable and do more with the power it has on board.

I am also a complete noob to BMW. However, there are not too many cars that I am in love with lately. I was also considering the GT-R and used Porche's, but at this point in my life I seem to be looking for more sport+luxury rather than pure sport. I have tossed out Mercedes because I am not in love with anything they have to offer. Further, Audi's offerings, while nice, seem to be lacking in their performance compared to BMW. I suppose I could also jump into a very few used Astons in this price range, but the ones I really like are outside it.

So...what do y'all think? Heck, it may not even happen - the wife could nix my purchasing attempts in lieu of saving the cash; which is probably smarter, but boys and their toys....

[Fri'Chickenisha]

[M]ercedes C63 AMG thread.

That has everything your looking for.

[DreamWarrior]

Originally Posted by GasDrinker

[M]ercedes C63 AMG thread.

That has everything your looking for.

Sedan, the wife would love your opinion, though. But, maybe not, I showed her the M5 and the M6 and she said, "if you have to spend the money, it may as well look like it performs." I was impressed...but she may have said that and thought to herself, "but, it does not matter, you will not be spending the money." LOL .

[hamzam]

I can argue that I have the best job in the world. Having said that, I've driven the M3, M5 and M6 (all current gen).

If you aren't going to touch the car, then the M6 is for you. It's a GT, feels MUCH more planted on the ground (because it is heavier), but the M3 has more of that twitchy turning response, very fun.

My only complaint about the current M cars = Hardly any torque, but the cars pull like motorcycles up top, for obvious reasons. 8,250rpm limit on the V10, and I believe close to 8,500rpm on the V8.

Regardless, if you get any M car, hope you can afford the gas. Otherwise, just cruise in it so people can actually see you. They look sexy and fast even driving slow.

Now, on the other hand, if you are going to mod your car slightly.... get any variation of the 335, except auto and AWD. Currently, my favorite BMW engine, by far. 300+ lb/ft of torque at 1,500rpm COMPLETELY STOCK! This car pushes you back in the seat no matter what gear/rpm you're in.

Grab a $2,500 Dinan ECU flash.... and you're in M5/M6 territory.

EDIT: The BMW dealer I work with has a BRAND NEW 335ci for $38k, down from $48k MSRP. Think of the savings!!!!

[DreamWarrior]

Originally Posted by hamzam

I can argue that I have the best job in the world. Having said that, I've driven the M3, M5 and M6 (all current gen).

Salesman/manager/mechanic?

If you aren't going to touch the car, then the M6 is for you. It's a GT, feels MUCH more planted on the ground (because it is heavier), but the M3 has more of that twitchy turning response, very fun.

My only complaint about the current M cars = Hardly any torque, but the cars pull like motorcycles up top, for obvious reasons. 8,250rpm limit on the V10, and I believe close to 8,500rpm on the V8.

So, a vote for the M6. I suppose you are saying most drivers would feel more confident in the M6.

Regardless, if you get any M car, hope you can afford the gas. Otherwise, just cruise in it so people can actually see you. They look sexy and fast even driving slow.

I see the gas milage, I don't cringe much. I figure if I'm not pushing these cars I should see 16, no? I'm not going to push it all the time, my license can not handle that.

Now, on the other hand, if you are going to mod your car slightly.... get any variation of the 335, except auto and AWD. Currently, my favorite BMW engine, by far. 300+ lb/ft of torque at 1,500rpm COMPLETELY STOCK! This car pushes you back in the seat no matter what gear/rpm you're in.

Grab a $2,500 Dinan ECU flash.... and you're in M5/M6 territory.

In working with BMW, does the Dinan stuff keep factory warranty? If so, this could be an option, though not as "exclusive" a club.

EDIT: The BMW dealer I work with has a BRAND NEW 335ci for $38k, down from $48k MSRP. Think of the savings!!!!

Are you selling this line to me, or the wife, .

Also, can you give me your impressions of the SMG and DCT if you've driven both?

Thanks!

[PiMpY]

EASY. M6. the new m3 is nowhere near as quick as the M6. A new m3 is lucky to crack off a 12.8 in most drivers hands. the m6 will run 12.4s all day long.

besides, m3s are a dime a dozen.

[PiMpY]

Originally Posted by hamzam

Grab a $2,500 Dinan ECU flash.... and you're in M5/M6 territory.

no you aren't

[PiMpY]

anyways at this price point i would buy a CTS-V, maybe a c63

edit: i would also wait for the new S4 and the RS5. While the S4 is to compete with the 335 and not the M3, my money says properly equipped (DSG and torque vectoring rear diff) will be neck and neck with the new m3 in almost any performance metric

[hamzam]

Originally Posted by DreamWarrior

Salesman/manager/mechanic?

I have an administrative position at an auto body shop that does all the repair work for a BMW dealership, amongst others. I deliver/pickup 90% of the cars.

So, a vote for the M6. I suppose you are saying most drivers would feel more confident in the M6.

Totally. I've seen too many M6's being driven by housewives, at least where I live.

I see the gas milage, I don't cringe much. I figure if I'm not pushing these cars I should see 16, no? I'm not going to push it all the time, my license can not handle that.

....city driving, you'll be lucky to get 12mpg, 13mpg max (on the V10).

In working with BMW, does the Dinan stuff keep factory warranty? If so, this could be an option, though not as "exclusive" a club.

So long as you use Dinan parts installed by a dealer, your warranty is totally in the clear. And also, let me put it this way; if I understand correctly, Dinan only gives you the dinan emblems for the back of the car once you have upgraded "enough" .

Are you selling this line to me, or the wife, .

BOTH! Besides the money saved on the sale (not to mention INSURANCE!!), she will enjoy it just as much as you, trust me. It's .1 seconds slower than the E46 M3. Handling-wise, it's firmer than a plain jane 330, but you don't feel every rock on the road as you would with the M3. M5/M6 are GT's, you don't feel crap on the road. M3 feels like your face is hitting every pebble... What would you rather have your daily driver feel like?

+ YouTube Video

E46 vs. Chipped 335i

Also, can you give me your impressions of the SMG and DCT if you've driven both?

I have not driven any car with the new DCT transmissions... pretty rare. As for SMG, it was only good on the E46 M3. Not really that smooth in the M5/M6 while in auto-mode/daily driving (it jerks and kicks, you have to let off the gas when it shifts in order to avoid that, just as you would in a stick-shift car), but when you are manually controlling the gears (all 7 on the M5/M6) it's pretty responsive. 6-speed manuals are rare, unless you order one (NEW!)

Originally Posted by PiMpY

no you aren't

+ YouTube Video

Considering the M5 can't even put a decent car length on the 335i, YES, you are.

Last note, first 2 years of the 335i's had over heating issues. Stay away.

[PiMpY]

Originally Posted by hamzam

I

So long as you use Dinan parts installed by a dealer, your warranty is totally in the clear. And also, let me put it this way; if I understand correctly, Dinan only gives you the dinan emblems for the back of the car once you have upgraded "enough" .

the dinan chipped 335s are also slower than the jb3 and proceeded 335s

Considering the M5 can't even put a decent car length on the 335i, YES, you are.

Considering that race took place at almost 5300ft NO, you aren't. The vast, vast majority of chip only 335s aren't turning anywhere near mid 12s.

[Bunchies]

Don't the m5/m6 6 speed manuuals overheat with the v10 because it was designed for the 550I? That would be some serious balls.

[DreamWarrior]

So, I looked at the 335 a bit, and I like the body styling and interior of the M6 quite a bit more. That and the exclusive nature of the M6 around here make it worth the money, to me. Thanks for the suggestion hamzam, but I think I'll pass. But, 12 MPG city...well, luckily my commute is mostly highway . However, if I take the plunge, I guess I will seriously consider an economic beater in my future to offset the gasoline juju.

So, it seems like the thread is down to M6 vs. any other suggestions at this price point (<= $80k).

PiMpY, since I have time, I guess I can see what Audi's newer offerings are, the RS5 looks attractive. But, it seems Audi generally has less HP per pound. The CTS-V is a sedan, and I prefer a two door car. Thanks for the suggestions.

Oh...and one more question about the M6. What are the expected maintenance costs? I realize that the factory warranty covers routine stuff while it is effective; but what about after? Also, do these things kill their owners with repairs? So far, it seems I have not heard too much bad besides the SMG issues.

[Chomp]

Originally Posted by DreamWarrior

So, I looked at the 335 a bit, and I like the body styling and interior of the M6 quite a bit more. That and the exclusive nature of the M6 around here make it worth the money, to me. Thanks for the suggestion hamzam, but I think I'll pass. But, 12 MPG city...well, luckily my commute is mostly highway . However, if I take the plunge, I guess I will seriously consider an economic beater in my future to offset the gasoline juju.

So, it seems like the thread is down to M6 vs. any other suggestions at this price point (<= $80k).

PiMpY, since I have time, I guess I can see what Audi's newer offerings are, the RS5 looks attractive. But, it seems Audi generally has less HP per pound. The CTS-V is a sedan, and I prefer a two door car. Thanks for the suggestions.

Oh...and one more question about the M6. What are the expected maintenance costs? I realize that the factory warranty covers routine stuff while it is effective; but what about after? Also, do these things kill their owners with repairs? So far, it seems I have not heard too much bad besides the SMG issues.

Seems like you're going to really regret getting the M6 after the novelty of it wears off. IMO, that is a car that you buy new, and if you can't afford to get it new then you probably can't afford the maintenance and ownership costs. Even a new M3 is going to cost you quite a bit after a while.

I don't know your financial situation, which can make all the difference, but I'd take some of these suggestions for an S4, CTSV, heck even a Z06 if you really want a coupe.

[PiMpY]

Originally Posted by DreamWarrior

PiMpY, since I have time, I guess I can see what Audi's newer offerings are, the RS5 looks attractive. But, it seems Audi generally has less HP per pound. The CTS-V is a sedan, and I prefer a two door car. Thanks for the suggestions.

The RS5 will be producing hp per pound atleast equivalent (packing 450+ hp) to the M3 and torque per pound exceeding it when it bows which i would imagine should be very, very soon. maybe a reveal in sept?

There is going to be a CTS-V coupe if you're interested. The performance will certainly exceed anything else listed in this thread.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/13/l...ort-wagon-dou/

[kooshball]

Originally Posted by Chomp

Seems like you're going to really regret getting the M6 after the novelty of it wears off. IMO, that is a car that you buy new, and if you can't afford to get it new then you probably can't afford the maintenance and ownership costs. .

i disagree. it makes a lot of sense financially to buy something like a m6 used. you're saving probably close to 30% for the 2-3 years.

and i think the more expensive a car is, the less likely it'll be driving like shit. i would expect an average m6 to be in much better shape than an average m3 simply because m3 is semi affordable to those young professionals under 30 that drives real hard, where as a m6 is less of an option for those people until they get older and hopefully wiser.

that said, i would take an slightly used m6 over a new m3 anyday!