Thread titles... They're a privilege, not a right.

[IcW@teR]

not

[TUT RAGE!!!]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

first, you don't actually know what he means, even if you did guess correctly.
second, this is a poorly thought out (and somewhat verifiably false) argument, for several reasons:
1. you are an american if you are an american citizen. it does not matter one iota what your ancestors did, they, do not define who you are, except for citizenship. i was adopted by an american, this makes me an american citizen, and therefore an american. it's that simple, and not open for discussion. (note that here "american" is different from "american with all of the connotations of the word in the minds of various people, such as 'truly' versus 'falsely' or 'partially' american").

2. now, what you certainly COULD argue, is that, because my experience is different than yours (i am only talking talking to you now because bflaps can talk for himself, you should talk for yourself), our views are different. this is blatantly obvious. this, in no way, shape, or form, makes you any more of an american than me. for example, a native american's ancestors may have been living in the land for a hell of a lot longer than your ancestors, and have a vastly differently perspective than you, but does that make you less of an american than them? not at all.

3. now, the whole "being truly ___ in the minds of ___" is obviously another open question, because different people have different minds. to many of my coworkers the fact that i work to solve the nation's massive energy and economic problems is what makes me a hell of a lot more of an american than someone born and raised here that has the resources and ability to contribute but does not. is their definition of "truly american" any more correct than yours? no, because english language (unlike many others) is not actually regulated by some scientific body, and therefore is defined solely by use.

4. i know for a fact that there are numerous examples in history of russian immigrants arriving to france during the civil war that followed the revolution of 1917, and as early as 50s and 60s being referred to (by french authors) as "members of the french scientific/artistic elite". i'd say this counters your assessment that you would never be considered "truly french" by someone born and raised there. in fact, since you mentioned it - much of the american space program was staffed by immigrants, and immigrants who came here a hell of a lot later in life than i did. were they american? i'd say so. they certainly were and are referred to as "american scientists".

5. know of asimov? one of the greatest authors in american science fiction. not born here. know of hyman rickover? father of the US nuclear navy. not born here. did they have your perspective? no, probably not. are they truly american? fuck yes.

6. i think this warrants repetition: you are not your fathers. you are you. their history impacts your perspective. and that's it. your perspective does not make you american, otherwise the people whose ancestors were living here before the continent was even discovered by europeans would not be considered american by your definition, since you can be sure as fuck your perspective is different than theirs. (and this is still true even if you are like half native american, because even the perspective of one native american is vastly differently from another; see civilized vs uncivilized tribes).

edit: and while this is a separate argument - my stepfather, the guy who adopted me, actually does have roots that go back generations. do his roots make me american now? using your argument, yes. but it's a bad argument, like i said.

You forgot about Sikorsky. He was a truly a high speed American also. I'm pretty sure there's alot more.

[gribly]

Originally Posted by why_ask_why

:facepalm:

If you honestly think I'm not going to take the opportunity to further upset someone who is clearly very touchy about a subject, you're crazy.

[teh_rapist]

Originally Posted by Forever Domon

fuck yeah.

My grandfather was a designer of the rockets that both put men on the moon and later powered the X15

not really relevant, but: was he also in the US civil war? damn son. i mean, you bolded that out...

[TUT RAGE!!!]

fuckin burger king, i had a Italian chicken club with fries didn't do shit still hungry as fuck.

[gribly]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

see, this is an example of different perspective.

....and i sure as fuck know, better than most americans for obvious reasons...

hmmm

[TUT RAGE!!!]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

not really relevant, but: was he also in the US civil war? damn son. i mean, you bolded that out...

He also invaded all of the Solomon Islands containing Japanese troops and wiped them all out. With a knife.

[teh_rapist]

Originally Posted by TUT RAGE!!!

You forgot about Sikorsky. He was a true American also. I'm pretty sure there's alot more.

well, i could name dozens of examples, obviously, so could you. just those two were the first ones who popped to mind WHILE explicitly being called "americans" by texts i recently read. i mean fuck, is obama not an american, while we are at it? u can't really argue that all his ancestors go back generations... (this is not a birther argument, your grandfathers are also your ancestors).

[asa]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

but niggеrs?

[TUT RAGE!!!]

Originally Posted by Forever Domon

teh_rapist is less human than me. You're forgetting this with your petty human logic

This is incorrect, teh_rapist is indeed a real human being, a pretty high speed one at that, you're just a failbot.

[gribly]

Actually, I do not consider him to be a "True American" and I never felt his presidential eligibility was 100% clear.

Obama, I mean.

[asa]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

and then there is the issue of "if something is coming from a hypocrite, is it any less true?" if some of the movement is about pushing for tighter regulation and less oligarchical favoritism that the nation's economic system currently has, does it make sense to discount it just because some (how high? from little i know, i'd say miniscule) fraction of them are lazy drug users/jackasses? i'd say no. do you say otherwise?

[serious genmay]
you do have to consider the source. a jackass that makes his living off of lying to others and lying in general might be correct (even a stopped watch is right twice a day) but you have to consider what the douchebag is going to get out of it, and if possible limit his benefits from that course of action
[/serious genmay]

Originally Posted by joemama

You may be naturalized (or even born here) but what he means is that you don't have roots in the states that go back generations. Some of us have ancestors that fought in the revolt against England, settled the west, civil war, WW2 with the allies, worked on the space program, etc..and have a different view of our country than a more recent immigrant. I could renounce my U.S. citizenship and move to say France and become a card carrying citizen....but I would never be truly French in the minds of people that have a long history there. (same for any kids I would have)

dats wacis

[teh_rapist]

Originally Posted by gribly

hmmm

are you dumb enough to interpret that sentence as implying that i am not american? because you do realize that, for instance, a man can say a sentence like: "I know better than most men..." and that in no way implies that he is not a man, right?

(obvious reason referred to here, if you can't tell, is the fact that i got my early education outside the states, while most americans did not, so i know better than most of them how truly significant exposure to formal mathematics early in life is. so does, for example, the american born and raised vendetta, because while he did not experience this, he formally studied it for years).

[Why_Ask_Why]

Originally Posted by gribly

Actually, I do not consider him to be a "True American" and I never felt his presidential eligibility was 100% clear.

Obama, I mean.

did you now the moon landing was faked too? and george bush orchestrated 9/11?

[Forever Domon]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

not really relevant, but: was he also in the US civil war? damn son. i mean, you bolded that out...

different relative of some sort.

Not sure which one, but i know both sides were in country at that time.